Need a dual G4!!

[Denis Deslauriers]

Hi macsnstuff,

Considering your added info, here is what I suggest.

With the size of files you process in Photoshop ( they must be Raw files or TIFF ) and the type of work you do, don't even think of going G4, your wasting your money if your planning to invest for the next tree years, you would be two technology behind, and that's not business savvy.

If your ready to spend $2000.oo and plan for the next tree years, go all the way and buy the latest Intel technology, don't even stop to look at the G5, go direct to the MacPro Core Duo bare bones.
The Two 2.0GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon - 1GB (2 x 512MB) minimum configuration is $2440.oo
and
The Two 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon - 1GB (2 x 512MB) minimum configuration is $2,799.00, this is the model I would buy if I needed a new computer right now, at least you would have the Intel chip, and be ready for Leopard and all native software's.

You can start off with the bare bone Intel CPU, and add as you go along, buy all the extra components such as extra Memory and HD's from third party, Apple is way to expensive in that area.

I already have a G4, so I can afford to wait it out for the next year ( max. ).
My G4 - 867 DP / 2 gig ram isn't exactly a bomb, but it's not a Slow Moe either, it does the exact same job as a G5 DP, it just takes a bit longer to do it in.

Hope this helps you out.

Cheers,
Denis

[z-mac]

I agree with Denis - the current top hardware is a solid investment. Expensive, but very good value.

Apple is going to have to force obsolescence through OS features because their hardware is now really top-notch AND mainstream. Internet transmission (FTP in your case, I assume) is more a function of what's outside your computer than what's in it, unless you are using poorly coded applications or wireless connectivity.

The inetersting thing in all of this is that my mac or any mac for that matter other than G3 can still do the job. Its a matter of how fast you need it to do the job. I think that I need a DP at the very least to help with the multi-tasking I need to do.

I have an Intel Mini and I'm impressed by what it can do. If you want to send me a test case (FTP a file while opening a file in Photoshop) I will report the numbers for my Mini and my G4 PowerMac, just so you can convince yourself to do what you really want to do. :^)

I do love the look of my quicksilver though. Its a nice box.

The G5/MacPro case design has won awards for the ~inside~ design. There's no other case like it on the market for utility and access. It's worth a premium for that alone.

[Denis Deslauriers]

I forgot to add one thing about the Bare Bones MacPro purchase.

I know it's pushing it, but if you can squeeze your budget a little more, go with the upgraded Video card from Apple ( One year OEM warranty ),
The 3 x NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB [Add $359]

I would seriously stop eating for two months just to pay off that upgrade.
And yes, I'm crazy enough to do it. lol

Cheers,
Denis

[AylmerQc]

Funny, this topic had me thinking about selling my Imac G5 Rev A and getting the latest Imac, before G5's lose more value. Looked at the price of a new Imac and the price difference I'd get for mine and have to pay for new doesn't justify parting with a machine that I'm totally happy with, except it doesn't run some of my Windowz programs.
Just my unsolicited 2cents..

[macsnstuff]

Found out a few things. MacPro runs CS2 slower than on a G5 because of the new architecture. Also, CS3 will be the bomb with MacPro but that means buying a MacPro/$2700 (with taxes), getting CS3 $1,000, add 1 GB ram/$1,000 = $4,700.

I just got CS2. So, its decided, a DP G5 it is. I will wait a few weeks until CS3 comes out and when everyone goes out to get the new MacPro to go along with it, I should be able to get a G5 DP 2.0 PCI-X at a better price than now. Start with 4GBs of ram and away I go for the next three years. $2,000 sounds better than $4,700.

Wish me luck and thanks guys! I only discovered this forum recently and i really like it! Its great! Better than ehmac in a lot of ways.

[keebmeister]

Found out a few things. MacPro runs CS2 slower than on a G5 because of the new architecture. Also, CS3 will be the bomb with MacPro but that means buying a MacPro/$2700 (with taxes), getting CS3 $1,000, add 1 GB ram/$1,000 = $4,700.

I just got CS2. So, its decided, a DP G5 it is. I will wait a few weeks until CS3 comes out and when everyone goes out to get the new MacPro to go along with it, I should be able to get a G5 DP 2.0 PCI-X at a better price than now. Start with 4GBs of ram and away I go for the next three years. $2,000 sounds better than $4,700.

Wish me luck and thanks guys! I only discovered this forum recently and i really like it! Its great! Better than ehmac in a lot of ways.

macnstuff, i'm going to toss some ideas your way that may throw a wrench into your latest decision. :) and i don't mean to do in a nasty way, but i've been watching this discussion b/c i have a g4 mdd dually 1.25, 2 GB ram, tons of hard drives that i thought about selling to you, but i'm going to keep it. (sorry).

BUT, i think you're making a mistake going for the g5.  i know you just upgraded to cs2, but i would think you'd be able to sell it in order to buy cs 3 when it comes out soon? or maybe an upgrade would be cheap? that is one idea.

the other thoughts are:
sure, a g5 dually 2.0 is nice.  I have one of those too and i love it...very stable, consistent power, but i wish i had more processing power. i do lots of video work and work in photoshop. i have 3.5 ram and even at times with psd files up to 200 MB, it chugs a bit.
i can't help but think a new machine would be just insanely fast....even with only 1 GB ram. i couldn't imagine it with more...that would be awesome :)

all the apps will be going intel or UB if they haven't already so in terms of staying on the latest and greatest, having a new mac pro would be a great idea. 

also, as time goes on, 2 things with the G5s:

1. i would think the chances of you snagging a g5 with applecare on it would be rare?  i know some ppl don't like the applecare, but if you are running a business....do you want any additional downtime from having to wait for a repair and/or having a large unexpected expense?  i know macs last a long time, but for me personally, i won't buy a machine without applecare on it.  paying upfront for possible service is cost efficient to having to pay for something out of pocket.

2. also, i don't see G5s dropping in price for a year or more. i know that may sound nuts, but look how expensive G4s are going for.  I foresee value in the G5 line for some time.  I've been looking for another G5 too. i should have plunked some money down on the quad G5 refurbs. doh!

and lastly...

taxes.

i know you're thinking...oh my lord.... $4700 vs $2000  = ouch.

but really, that's only an ouch upfront.  since you're running a business, you get a certain % tax write off (can't remember exactly what it is).  since macs don't depreciate as fast as pcs, what you can write off is still a nice amount over the next few years.  You CAN lease to get a larger tax write off, but i know ppl don't suggest leasing computers b/c their value drops so fast and you end up paying more over time.

you could take out a loan or, if you have life insurance built up, you should be able to take x amount from that and then just pay yourself back.  i forget the exact terminology. the interest on that is incredibly low and this is something that MOST people have no clue about.  better than a low interest line of credit account any day.  we did this to help with the down payment of our mortgage :)  and you just have to pay the premiums over x amount of time.  this is such as huge loan possibility...it's amazing that people don't know about it.  it's like paying yourself back...investing in yourself is another way of looking at it.

lastly, as john madden says, "Speed kills baby!"

sure, a g5 would be nice, but if the new machine's are insanely fast - do you really want any downtime? as a new business, you'll want to be churning out business FAST.  you'll want files to be opening seamlessly and processed as quick as possible. again, this leads back to whether or not you'll want CS3.

anyhoo, just my thoughts. i'm saving right now to get a mac pro sometime later this year, unless i trip on a nice applecare-available G5.

go for the mac pro and just give'er.  i know it's scary to pay a large chunk of money, but i bought my g4 way back when it was just around $4000.   i had it paid off in just over a year.   same with my g5.  if you're making money, you'll pay it off.

oh, and if you wait a few months, i'm thinking that refurb'd mac pros will start showing up on the cdn site. (or, if you know someone in the US, buy a refurb from their site and have it shipped to your friend and then they ship to you).

best of luck.

[keebmeister]

i forgot one other important point macnstuff:

if you're worried about investing the money and then, unfortunately, the business failing - well, knowing the high resale value of macs, you'd be able to sell your mac pro even in a year or so and still get a fair chunk of money back. of course, i can't predict how much, but my g5 is from mid-2004 and look how much they are still selling for - I could probably get around 45% of the original value.  that is pretty darned good for almost 3 years later.

it's like buying a foreign vehicle like a toyota vs north american.  all good vehicles, but for some reason, the foreign ones hold their value while the NAs just depreciate like no tomorrow.  i actually made money back on my toyota truck when i sold it. when i calculated how much i spent vs how much i got back for the truck and paid off the rest of the payments, my payments went down from $575 to $375!

i imagine a mac is somewhat the same.  so it's kind of like investing in your business :)

somehow, i see you pinging the apple store and placing an order?

[AdminMan]

taxes.

i know you're thinking...oh my lord.... $4700 vs $2000  = ouch.

but really, that's only an ouch upfront.  since you're running a business, you get a certain % tax write off (can't remember exactly what it is).  since macs don't depreciate as fast as pcs, what you can write off is still a nice amount over the next few years.  You CAN lease to get a larger tax write off, but i know ppl don't suggest leasing computers b/c their value drops so fast and you end up paying more over time.

The rate at which any asset depreciates has almost nothing to with the amount you can claim on your taxes. For example, the CCA (capital cost allowance) you can claim on application software is 100 percent per year, but you are only allowed to claim 50 percent of the CCA in the year of purchase.

The Capital Cost Allowance is "a tax deduction that Canadian tax laws allow a business to claim for the loss in value of capital assets due to wear and tear or obsolescence" (Canada Revenue Agency).

If you purchased your computer equipment and/or systems software after March 22, 2004, it has a  CCA rate of 45 percent (so 22.5 percent in the year of purchase).

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb0606-e.htm

Everybody can wake up now .... ;-)

[keebmeister]

taxes.

i know you're thinking...oh my lord.... $4700 vs $2000  = ouch.

but really, that's only an ouch upfront.  since you're running a business, you get a certain % tax write off (can't remember exactly what it is).  since macs don't depreciate as fast as pcs, what you can write off is still a nice amount over the next few years.  You CAN lease to get a larger tax write off, but i know ppl don't suggest leasing computers b/c their value drops so fast and you end up paying more over time.

The rate at which any asset depreciates has almost nothing to with the amount you can claim on your taxes. For example, the CCA (capital cost allowance) you can claim on application software is 100 percent per year, but you are only allowed to claim 50 percent of the CCA in the year of purchase.

The Capital Cost Allowance is "a tax deduction that Canadian tax laws allow a business to claim for the loss in value of capital assets due to wear and tear or obsolescence" (Canada Revenue Agency).

If you purchased your computer equipment and/or systems software after March 22, 2004, it has a  CCA rate of 45 percent (so 22.5 percent in the year of purchase).

http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/library/PRBpubs/prb0606-e.htm

Everybody can wake up now .... ;-)

perfect. so he can't write off as much, but a chunk the first year. this leads me to something else which may apply to both of us: if we bought a 2nd hand mac or a brand new one from let's say ebay or craigslist or this board etc....  unless we have an invoice, can we claim anything the first year?

[z-mac]

While we wait for advice from the tax expert :^) I thought I'd post a couple of interesting possibilities from the external world.

You could put a used Sonnet card in this and get some real horsepower (but the box needs a PS):
http://www.usedottawa.com/classified-ad/2668780&category=mac-desktops-laptops

Here's another:
http://www.usedottawa.com/classified-ad/2667813&category=mac-desktops-laptops

Now, what I'm saying is that if you ~feel~ like noodling and bargain hunting, you can find performance and savings. But Z-Mac's Law Of Wasted Time (i.e. You Will Never Get It Back) is harsh to computer twiddlers.

If you go and buy the best Mac you can right now, you'll be using it as of right now. Your money is important to you, but we all forget that nothing buys time.

[keebmeister]

While we wait for advice from the tax expert :^) I thought I'd post a couple of interesting possibilities from the external world.

You could put a used Sonnet card in this and get some real horsepower (but the box needs a PS):
http://www.usedottawa.com/classified-ad/2668780&category=mac-desktops-laptops

Here's another:
http://www.usedottawa.com/classified-ad/2667813&category=mac-desktops-laptops

Now, what I'm saying is that if you ~feel~ like noodling and bargain hunting, you can find performance and savings. But Z-Mac's Law Of Wasted Time (i.e. You Will Never Get It Back) is harsh to computer twiddlers.

If you go and buy the best Mac you can right now, you'll be using it as of right now. Your money is important to you, but we all forget that nothing buys time.

z-mac.....you said it perfectly - time is money.  i love that 'law of wasted time'.  i'm going to start using that alot :)

[macsnstuff]

Agreed. I have wasted time and effort into this. It is worth it to save some money on used. Its not worth it to lease. You end up paying more and you have to buy it back when the lease is done. The tax write-off is not that impressive when you're out of pocket is double or more.

I am probably going to bite the bullet and save time and buy a G5 for $2000. I wanted to get one for around $1500 but that is next to impossible.

[Denis Deslauriers]

A lot has been covered here, and I quote " But Z-Mac's Law Of Wasted Time (i.e. You Will Never Get It Back) ".

I think your making a big mistake macsnstuff in spending 2 g's on a G5, and trying to cover the next tree years.
But, since we are covering the G4 and G5 in this thread, here is something to consider if anyone is thinking of buying into older technology.

I tested my G4 - 867 DP / 2 gig ram side by side with a G5 - 1.6 single processor, and my Mac was considerably faster than the G5 in processing Photoshop files, it was tested with several other software that puts a demand on the processor ( or processors ), and my G4 came out ahead of the game every time.
The test was run by a friend of mine, a hard core PC guy of all things who's to cheap to buy a Mac, I wanted an unbias opinion on this one.

I made it a point to write this tid-bit, just in case macsnstuff gets an urge to go for a deal ( I don't think so ) on a used G5 single processor.

My last 2 cents on the matter.

[macsnstuff]

I never said I was going for a single processor. I've been talk duals the whole time. Either G4 or G5.

[keebmeister]

Agreed. I have wasted time and effort into this. It is worth it to save some money on used. Its not worth it to lease. You end up paying more and you have to buy it back when the lease is done. The tax write-off is not that impressive when you're out of pocket is double or more.

I am probably going to bite the bullet and save time and buy a G5 for $2000. I wanted to get one for around $1500 but that is next to impossible.

good luck macnstuff.  hope you don't think that we think you wasted time b/c i don't.  just trying to help guide you on your way.
only you can decide what is worth it for your biz b/c only you know the exact ins and outs of what you are buying,spending and preparing to do. and if you do find someone or a store that has a few extra g5 duals, keep me posted. i may add another to the mix for the right price.

best of luck.